How to set up a Mobile CRM
Steve: What’s up app nation? It is Steve Young and welcome to the Friday weekly live stream where we bring on a guest, really break down the strategies that are working in the app space to help you grow those downloads and more importantly, those revenues. And today it’s all about CRM. How do you use a customer relationship management system to really engage your customers, maybe increase retention and ultimately increase those revenues. And breaking it down all with me to figure out, if you don’t know anything about a CRM, what tools we should be using is Florian Gleissner. And I’m not going to even butcher his last name, but Florian Gleissner from Admiral Media. Go check them out. They are an ad marketing agency as well as what we do. But they do performance marketing. They do CRM now and they do paywall optimization. They’ve got a lot of great clients that they work with. So just check them out. It is: admiral.media. Florian Gleissner welcome to the show.
Florian Gleissner: Hi, I’m very excited to be here. Hello.
Steve: Awesome. I want to say hi to Luke. What’s up Luke? What’s up Ram? Florian Gleissner, let’s break it down. For those might not be familiar with the a mobile CRM. Break it down with the basics. So what is a CRM for you?
Florian Gleissner: So the core of CRM is sending the right message to the right user at the right moment on the right channel. That sounds really easy, but this is also what it is about to find out what is right. And what’s the best user, what’s the best channel. And so it is a mix about communication to the users and also to use the right channel, to increase really the activation to retention rate and also demonetization.
Steve: Yeah, I love it. And so when you’re breaking it down with a CRM, is there a tool that you like to use?
Florian Gleissner: Yes, it’s a much iterable tool. It’s a big one, but there are so many also smaller CRM tools outside of there. So the really important thing is every app has to ask some questions. So for example, which channel I do want to play on, how many user do I want to reach? What’s my budget? How much I want to communicate? So will I send an email every week or will I have it pushed every hour? Also for the technical perspective, how it fits in technical things with my CRM team and also what region I want to send to, and these are some of the questions you have to ask yourself before and then you can make a plan and then you can search for the right CRM tool, what really fits to what do you need?
Steve: Is this what you’re talking about iterable?
Florian Gleissner: Yes. So I worked with that for two years. They are really nice and have a good customer service and they cover really everything. So you can push journeys, email journeys, personalization, you get a lot of data out of it. So it’s a really nice tool.
Steve: Okay. Well, I want to get into some of the things, so I guess are they competing with clever tap as well? Like do you think clever tap and iterable kind of compete with each other?
Florian Gleissner: I don’t think so very much, but a little bit. So as I said, there are really a lot of CRM tools at the moment. So in the last two years, I think 100 per months coming up from new CRM tools and there are also some really small CRM tools where only can send email, for example, only can send push notifications, but it’s really an all in one tool, but it’s really up to the app what’s necessary.
Steve: Okay. Well, let’s break it down to the three stages that you have and the three important stages of a mobile CRM.
Florian Gleissner: Yes. So the zero point. So before the first steps is this technical setup, but for this, I’m not the expert, so this should be done via these tool and also from a developer side, because there you need something in the back end and front end of the app. So this is totally not my topic. I hope this metric can be done. And after that I come in and the first step would be to install the first customer journey. So a push a journey, if you want an email journey or an in-app notification service, you have some baseline that the users get some notifications in a good word in the activation phase for the first 7 to 10 days every day that the users came to using the app and integrate using the app in their daily life.
And that’s the retention, for long time things and also for the monetization. So just yeah, scratch down some use cases. For example, day one, email can be a use case so we can develop several use cases for that and then implement into your CRM tool. And after that, the second step is coming. So this is the consistent AB testing because if you have your baseline, if you have your customer journey, you then need to always improve this customer journey to really make some performance and make some growth, to really find out what the users want to have, what you don’t want to have, how you can monetize your app the best way. And then on step three, after the AB test, the third step would personalization, because this is all about what’s different with a good CRM from a perfect CRM. So the perfect CRM is always a personalization so that the users leave this push notification for example, is written for me in person.
Steve: I love it. I want to say hi to a few more people, Ricardo, Adrian, what’s happening, my friend, Samuel, and then Patrick, good to see you. I want to stick with the customer journey, like talk to me about that. How do you really get into the specific of a customer journey? Is it just being like, and we could pick an app as an example, like step one, they obviously install and sign up. Is it like, Hey, I want them to meditate one session. What does that journey look like? Like get into the weeds with me the details.
Florian Gleissner: Yeah, sure. So let’s keep with this example for meditation, because it’s definitely different from app to app and also from genre to genre, but let’s keep to this healthy app. What is your goal with CRM with an health app. So your goal is that the user comes every day into the app and get in shape with the app and really bring it to their daily life, a day for meditation, stand up, have a little snack and then meditate before they go to work. So we have to send reminders every morning to see here, please come into the app, do your meditation, that the users get in shape of this routine let’s say, and let’s say it’s a period of 10 days, 7 to 10 days. And they will have to remind every day that the users come in and for this, you have to say some good words to the users when the users did the meditation and maybe also some motivational pushes when the users don’t come into the app.
So that you teach them to use the app every day. And from this, you can yeah build some of the use cases and for this to really get an idea from your customer journey. It’s really good that you de-install your app and really come as a new user and see what are your touchpoints? What I have to do, what I should do. And then we have these two perspectives. One perspective is what you as an app want that the users do. And also what, when you say, okay, I want to meditate because I want to sleep better. What the users expect from your app. And what really brings benefit to the users and the views of both sides combined, leads to a good customer journey because you know when you have to communicate and then you can build out of this use cases.
Steve: If you had to pick, and I’m going to assume both, but like, I shouldn’t probably, this is a bad way of asking a question. But if you were feeling like, Hey, this is a push notifications versus email. Like, do you have a preference between the channel and the communication mechanism to bring customers back in.
Florian Gleissner: So basically you have three different versions how to communicate with, let’s say main channels, because you can have also SMS and something like that. But the real big things are push notifications. And the goal of the push notification is really to bring the users into the app again. So that users click on the push, open the app and then if in the app can do something. Then you have an in-app communication, for example, a pop up in the app or a little screen in the app. This is for giving the user some rewards or reminds the user of something or bring the users to something, what you wanted to do from the user side. And you have email and the email is also a good thing to bring the user back in the email.
This is not because normally desktop versions also give a little challenge because when users open the email, who have desktop, you cannot go back to the app, but the pro or the good things from the email is that you have really a lot of space. You can have a nice design, you can have a good structure and also a lot of, or several call to actions. For this I love email marketing, especially for when it comes to monetization or also to introduction because here can have a lot of information and also say, here, this is our app, and this is all your benefits and all you get out of this app. You can write down in an email and then also use for monetization.
Steve: I like it. The push notification. Do you have a formula that you like to use in terms of, how do you sort of like drip people to come back in? Have you seen any case studies on your end that are like, Hey, whatever it is, personalization, I know a lot of people do timeliness. Maybe some it’s probably overplayed, but like emojis too. Have you seen anything on your end from push notifications that works really well?
Florian Gleissner: Emojis is definitely a common thing. What we also see increase the conversion rate is rich push. That means that you don’t send only the text messages. So in the rich push, you have a picture or a little graphic inside of it. This is very good to increase your conversion rate, especially for Apple, because there it works very well. And what I also saw, but this is not a general learning. So the most funniest things looks better than boring things. It seems to be a very basic thing. But it also doesn’t work every time. It’s all about use case, but if you’re a little bit funny, it works mostly better than if you’re boring.
Steve: Ricardo. I think you got that on your end.
Florian Gleissner: It’s like a podcast.
Steve: That’s what you’re saying. I’ve worked with clever tap in the past. So I’m going to give them a quick little plug, but I downloaded their, because I’ve been really high on push notifications, Florian Gleissner, I’m trying to help our clients out with push notifications. So I downloaded this white paper that they put together, things that we’re testing on our end They have these things called power words. They’re time sensitive, things like applied, discount, today, things that are ending, and then the impact of emojis, like you said, 9.6 improvement and click through rates by including emojis. And so I would say, definitely download this. And then they tell you they break down all this stuff. But one of the thing I thought about, and I saw somebody talk about push notifications on Twitter. My group said the way I like to think about it is the way that email marketers have always thought about digital courses, for example.
And I love adopting a lot of the digital course guys, because they do a lot of like, it’s like the gaming, they’re always pushing the envelope on how much they can get away with. And so the way that I’ve thought about it is day one, you want to deliver that quick win, that first push to be like that quick win. So for meditation and we’re working with a client of ours where I’m like, look, it’s very hard. Like this is a long meditation. I might just be coming into the app and I only have a few minutes. So how do I get that first couple of minutes, whether it’s a breathing exercise. Like a quick win and then talk about what most people deal with in terms of their problem and then provide that solution to how your app has that. And I have this little course and this template that I have at master’s academy, but we kind of break it down day one, here’s what you should do, day two and I’m sort of adopting that model from digital course creators. So any thoughts on that?
Florian Gleissner: Yeah, this is definitely a good idea to bring some big win or quick wins or low hanging fruits to the customer. What I saw, especially in health apps, it’s a lot about motivation. So because we all know it. Let’s say I want to start jogging. I buy everything. I buy jogging shoes, I buy trousers, I buy some water, something for my hand. And then it’s the first day and I say, oh, it’s a little bit rainy. I start tomorrow. That’s fine. I start tomorrow but then I go running 10 kilometers. Then next day also that the sun is not shining. Oh, it’s a little bit too cold. I start next day I say we’re 115 kilometers. And then on third I say, okay, let’s go. I do it. I do 10 meters.
And I say, okay, no, jogging isn’t something for me. So you have to defeat yourself, especially when it comes to health apps, because it’s not a nice thing. So you have to learn and your rhythm and your daily routine, you have to learn something. We are human, we are not likely to learn something into our daily routines. And so you have to really say the users here come to us and this is the benefit you get from it. If you have a brief 10 minutes today, you will sleep better tonight. It’s not true, but you know what I mean? So we have to motivate everyone that come.
And also what’s really also works very good is the contract with myself. So you can remind the user for this context, you can say, here you download the app. You say, you want to change something, do it, and you can do it right now. Take here, start your meditation and let’s go.
Steve: Yep. I love it. I love it. And I know one of the things that clever top kind of says too, is the best times to send push notifications could be early in the morning and then late at night, like that’s when we’re probably not on our phones, usually not in the middle of the day, you know what I mean? And I like the power words. What we’ve been really testing with push notifications is can we drive more conversions through them? Like using the power words of discount, apply, ending soon. These are all mechanisms that people know. In Robert Houdini’s book influence. You need to have a sense of urgency. So you need to have a promotion that’s going to be in because people are going to be on the fence all the time. And so you just have to close it and be confident that Hey, it’s closed too.
Florian Gleissner: Yes when there is a reason why. So, especially for the monetization, especially for the office, I saw a lot of things like only two days left. It’s the last chance get it at 30%. And three days later, I get the next offer and say 30% of it’s the last chance. Only the last time. I call it the thing dilemma. So I know if you know the company thing, it’s like LinkedIn, but more for Germany. And so I get an email with 30% off. I say, nice, okay. Want to buy? And I forget to buy. Next day, I get now, okay 50% off say, okay, now I get 10% more. Let’s wait another day. I wait another day. And then I get 60%. And then also 70%. And sure, I wait because I want to have the best deal. And after that they say, okay, here’s the last chance. And I would say okay, let’s see. And they sent me every week, the highest discount. And for this, I don’t want to buy this because in my eyes, the whole pricing strategy, because then when they can offer me 70%, the whole time, so the service can be worth 100%.
So we have always to find this reason why for your offer. But we have definitely some set things like Friday, for example. Everybody knows Black Friday, everybody knows on Black Friday you get the best year. So you can definitely play out the best year on Black Friday.
Steve: I know from the digital course realm and sometimes you don’t even have to do discounts. You can say bonuses are going away. And then that gauges people. So that’s another opportunity, but I know the opening day. So like, Hey, big sale. That’s usually the big sales date. And then the last chance are usually the best sales. And then what we think about too is they usually have something in between. So it’s not just like sales open and then last chance. There’s something that usually happens in between that talks about like FAQs. Okay, it’s open. Now people have thought about it. People who are excited are going to buy. And then in between the first open and last chance, something in between that says, Hey, you got questions about this offer. Here are some questions, here are some popular FAQs and then hit reply. If you got any questions for us, hit reply. And then we’ll answer them because people who are on the fence, you want to overcome some of the objections that they have as well.
Florian Gleissner: Yeah. That’s totally true. You have to find your sweet spot. And what I say is when you have a reason why the offer is fine, but don’t send out over here, you get 60% and you say, why I get this? Because it’s Friday, the 1st of March. So don’t know what the day is. And I did say I wasn’t in the app five days, so it’s also not a win big offer. So you have to really think about the wording and make a good wording to find this reason why.
Steve: Hey, Florian Gleissner you were talking about AB testing. So I remember testing myself, your stuffer. You’re like, okay, here’s the customer journey, it is or I think you’ve said stage one, customer journey, stage two AB testing, and then stage three personalization. Anything from the AB testing, whether it’s through the retention aspect or the paywall optimization that you found interesting? Any new AB testing that you found interesting?
Florian Gleissner: Yeah. AB testing. This is a good thing because I think lot of apps doesn’t or don’t do that really right. Because when you do AB testing, you have to do it constantly, so you need definitely a road map. A road map for three months or better six months with really defined KPIs, goals, your expectations, your planning, also what you want to test. And the big challenge for AB tests is that most of the apps don’t test one object versus one object. Most of them are testing two versus two. So to bring an example here if I ask you, are you happy and I’m the best participant in this podcast ever? And you say, yes, I can say, okay, you are happy and I’m the best participant. But when you say no, I can also come to the conclusion. Okay, I’m the best participant, but you are not happy.
So only test one objective versus each other. For example, test the headline. One headline versus another or test the picture, one picture versus another, and don’t test picture and headline, for example, because then you definitely don’t know after the AB test what brings you the uplift all the downtrend.
Steve: Yeah. I love it. I love it. I think that’s the biggest mistake that I see people make too. I talk to people all the time and I audit their apps and I go, Hey, you know, phase one, what is the easiest things that we can get done and start AB testing and then phase two. Here’s what I want to do. Phase three, I don’t want to hold anything up. Like these are things I feel confident on, low-hanging fruit let’s get them out of the way. But a lot of times they’re like, let’s just put it. And I was like best case scenario, all my suggestions, the variables you’re testing, they all work. You see an improvement, the worst case scenario, that’s the best case. Worst case scenario, nothing works but you don’t know why it didn’t work. So that’s the key of the AB test. You need to know why it didn’t work. You just changed this one thing. Okay. That did not work. But if you do three things at once, you won’t know why something did not work. Yeah. I love it. Anything else you want to cover from the CRM that I missed? The in app communication, anything on the email side that you’ve seen work well, too?
Florian Gleissner: The biggest learning or the biggest thing I had is for the monetization strategy, because we talked previously about time based offers for let’s say like Friday, Easter offer. But what I figured out is that behavior based offers works very, very well. So I call it the happy moment of us. And this works like, okay, you have a look on the customer journey and see where are some happy moments for the customers. For example, let’s say for the meditation, the customer or the users finish the first meditation. So the user is in a very good mood and see, okay, this meditation brings some benefits for me. So the app brings some benefits for me. And I’m very happy because I finally did it. And then you can say here, you finished your first meditation.
You are now on your journey. We boost you get 10% off. And I saw a lot of increase in the conversion rates for the revenue, by these happy moments. And you find several happy moments. You can say also, like you open the app seven days in a row. Happy birthday, something like that. Find some spots where the users are in a good mood. They are happy and see the benefits of your app, and then go out with an offer with direct communication because gere you have also personalization and the user is in a good mood for your app. So users like your app because he achieved something and then he has definitely more willingness to buy it.
Steve: Yeah. I love that, could it be, I guess, it requires that you be testing, but could it be after that first meditation? Is it after that second? What do you think is the right time to hit him with that promo?
Florian Gleissner: On this topic, we find out this was on the third thing, not meditation but about testing, but it was the first, so it’s not the first one, but the third. And at the first one we h
Steve: That’s awesome. I love that idea. I love that idea because I’ve been thinking about this too Florian Gleissner, there are apps out there that will give you free access for limited days. You get the paywall on the onboarding, which you and I both agree. You gotta show it on the onboarding. And then if you X out of that, you’re like, Hey, no problem, we’ll give you X amount of things for free, and days. You get seven days to try out for free and then they locked out. And I’ve been kind of saying, I think that’s the wrong way of doing it. I think the better approach should be what you kind of said, feature base or usage base. Like go ahead. Meditate three times. Pick from any of our library, do it three times, but once you’re on the fourth one, that’s when you get locked out and maybe that’s when you show the promo, Hey, now that you’ve meditated three times, would you like to save 10%, 20%, whatever it is and get going that way. And I almost feel like that’s the better way because it might take me three times, but we have a new case study coming on soon. So we’ll look out for that. We already done recording and editing it, but it talks just about usage base versus time base.
Florian Gleissner: Yeah. Usage or behavior base is definitely, I saw it as in every case, let’s say 99% of the case, because I don’t like to say 100% but 99%. It’s always better for the conversions.ad the best conversion rate. But it doesn’t say the other works the same. So as you said, you have to find out your spot and your happy moments via AB test. What we also did, we create a happy moment where we manually by ourself we did a quiz, say after one week we say here it was also about fasting. Say here, you have a little quiz about fasting. Let’s see how your status is, how your knowledge about fasting is. And you could lose this Chris, but most time you win it. And after that here you’re an expert, come let’s do it together. Let’s do it long time. Here, you have a free month subscription with a discount about 30%. And this conversion rate was beyond the sky. It was really, really nice.
Steve: Yeah. I love it. I love it. That’s a great topic here. This is what we’re talking about, Like mix panel. We love using them for some of the analytics we have and it’s free, up to a hundred thousand and then you’re like test us out. But then once you go over, so it’s like more behavior usage base. You’re going to have to pay a little bit afterwards. So I love that. Let’s go to part two of our live stream and so in part two what we always do is look at your apps. So if you got any apps that you want us to look at, just go to appmaster.com/audit, and I’m trying to find it appmaster.com/audit. You’ll find the free form where it’s just a Google form. Fill out the info there. We won’t spam you or anything else. We have a long list and we’ll get to it in a future live stream. And if you want to sit down for an hour with me, we got that option as well. Alright, Florian Gleissner, we start off every part too, with some dad jokes. You got some dad jokes ready to go.
Florian Gleissner: Okay. I try. So I am thankful, but I too try. So it’s about a patient and the doctor. I do different voices. So the doctor is a little bit like, okay. Okay. And the patient is like, eh, okay. So then you see the difference. So, okay. The patient come into the doctor’s room and the doctor says, I’m sorry, but you suffer from a terminal issue and you have 10 to live. And the patient says 10 what? Months, weeks. 9, 8, 7.
Steve: That’s dark. You already had me laughing with all the voices. Alright. It’s my nephew’s birthday this weekend. He is very much into dinosaurs. So I found some dinosaur jokes. So, alright. What do you call a dinosaur with one eye? Do you think he can sarous. There you go. That’s what you call a dinosaur with one eye. Put S in the comment, if you thought my joke was better, put the F if you thought Florian Gleissner’s joke was better and Adil made it, what’s up Adil. And then Kevin, good to see you, man. Hope you’re enjoying Lakeland. Let’s get into the app. So we got an app from Jeremy, Germany. So close because I know you’re in Germany too.
So I couldn’t get his app, but I do have it. And he changed it Jeremy, since he kind of submitted this. So he wants keyword optimization and downloads. So Florian Gleissner you’re the guest. Is there anything you want to lead off with from this app? Like app store presence or anything else?
Florian Gleissner: Yeah, I don’t find it. Oh found it.
Steve: It is very hard. Trust me. It was very hard for me.
Florian Gleissner: Some some focus on ASO.
Steve: Yeah. I agree. And I think Muniy it’s like money it’s pronounced money kind of puts it right here. Pronounced money brings financial into a great convenience. I think with an app like this, if keyword optimization, like it doesn’t really matter. Send and receive money, this is good. Pay, cash, those type of keywords. Like they’re very specific to here. Like let’s put it into mobile action. Send money. The other one that he has in his app store receive money. So send money is a big one, but it’s super competitive. And I feel like with an app, like this you just have to drive user acquisition, whether it’s through TikTok, which you guys are very big on.
Other things are Facebook, the apple search ads. Whatever your platform is like, that’s how you’re going to have to attack it because I have one client in this financial space, but their ASO sucked. Like it was really bad, but they were driving so much UA that they were ranking top. Like their keywords were amazing, their rankings. And it just goes to show you sometimes part of the algorithm is download velocity. So if you’re able to drive downloads from other channels, your ASO, even if it’s really crappy, we’ll do just fine. And so I think with an app like this, I think it’s less reliant on ASO and more reliant on more brand your brand and like yeah.
Florian Gleissner: You definitely also aside from user, you need something like brand identity and brand awareness because financial apps comes with a lot of focus on trust and trust you can get with brand identity and brand awareness.
Steve: Okay. Look, Venmo, send money. Send money, pay and earn reward. So let’s say Venmo 79 send money 40. You could see like the power of a brand. It’s like dating Florian Gleissner. Like nobody searches for online dating. Everybody searches for Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, all that stuff. The brand power forms, the search volume wise, then the actual like generic term. Unlike things like meditation possibly, where calm is probably up there and maybe head space, but everything else is like, it’s normal. Like meditation’s not bad though. So they’re not like brand, what’s the word I’m looking for. They’re not stuck with the brand, but it’s not brand driven. It is more generic terms driven.
So that’s how I would say Jeremy, you’re going to have to really figure out what your UA channel is. And to do that, it’s like, if you’re getting into Facebook, like who is your primary target, that customer journey, what do they look like? What are they in need for? And then just tailor to that. Why would somebody want this? Maybe they’re a business owner and they want to get away from Square and Venmo and you have lower rates. So you really need to play this up rather than just saying pay and receive money from businesses. Like nobody trusts you get, I would have some trust symbols here as well. So think about having some trust symbols. It’s very important unless you’re a Venmo and you already built that trust, but yeah. Cool. Alright. Anything else you want to talk about?
Florian Gleissner: I’m good. I think, yeah it’s all about trust. I definitely agree.
Steve: Yeah. I typically go to clients websites and they have some trust symbols here. I usually do, but I would want some trust symbols here. I always like to start off every like screenshots wise, the main benefits, which the text is tiny by the way. And then some social proof and then get into some of the benefits of this. But yeah. Interesting. Should we take a look at the app? Let’s take a look at the app. Family. Sure. Alright. Any feedback right now, feel free to jump in?
Florian Gleissner: So for the onboarding I saw that’s really a good thing on the onboarding to get the first yes from the user. So first screen with something like, are you ready? Or something like wording that’s the culture action is yes. Educates your first. Okay. I would actively say yes to the app and then the next steps are a little bit better, especially when it comes to personal data or something like that. So get your first yes at the beginning. And then the users have a better mood to fill out to onboarding.
Steve: Yeah. I think from a UI perspective, I don’t like this Jeremy, like tap to edit, like first in middle names. Like we could just put it, like if I tap here, nothing happens, which is annoying. So I get your developers to just do it because that’s what we’re used to seeing. Not like this far off, right up here, but anyways. Steve Young and then I’ll kill out everything else. I had to create a brand new iPhone account for this stuff. I was doing so many of these Florian Gleissner. I was like, you know what? I can’t just use my normal iPhone anymore. This is getting too crazy.
Florian Gleissner: Yeah. Me too.
Steve: We always need this extra phone. Okay. Now it’s asking for me. Oh, passcode. Okay. They sent me an email, so I gotta do this. I find these annoying.
Florian Gleissner: Especially for this topic, because giving your data is always, have to be very smooth and smart. Otherwise if this is all, you’ll stop doing it on delete app instantly.
Steve: Yeah, it is. And I know they might need it, but like it’s annoying. It is a hurdle. But I think they ask for my phone number too. Like why not just verify with the phone? It’s a lot easier. I’m on my phone. They’re asking me again. Oh, via text. Oh my goodness. So now they check my email and my texts. Oh, what are your thoughts Florian Gleissner?
Florian Gleissner: Maybe they should yeah, think about removing this from the onboarding maybe to skip this and just give a quick access that the user can see okay. Without look in, you can see that and see some benefits out of the app that you can say okay, I can do this with the app and this is my benefits. And maybe then users are more likely to be going through annoying part. If annoying part is necessary. Sometime it is.
Steve: Now the review my application, oh my God. I think you just lost people at Jeremy. So one of the things I would be tracking kind of to your point, the customer journey, and then underneath that should be, and I pointed out mixed panel, like how many people get through this entire flow and end up signing up. The fact that I had to do this email. I don’t know this industry, but I thought I was just sending money and receiving money. And I don’t remember signing up for Venmo. It’s been a while, but I don’t remember having to go through this many hurdles to get Venmo on my phone and start sending money. So this is a long process for me to start going.
Now, if I was trying to get a loan or insurance, I get ya, but I’m assuming you’re connecting to my bank account and allowing me to send money quickly through your app. And the fact that you have an approval for that, you’re probably gotta drop off to the email notification. You probably gotta drop off because now you’re asking me for a text notification and then now you’re getting me a drop off because now it’s like I have to get approved. So I feel like.
Florian Gleissner: Everything without a good reason why. So I don’t see why I have to give my email and my phone number. And now my first name. So maybe you can, a little bit more guide, prove this is onboarding process and explain here, we need your email because of that. We need your phone number now because of that then you make more steps or bring the steps out of the onboarding in the app after a little bit of a test phase users can then after day one, give email address, after day two, give a phone number like this. If you don’t have it in one row and then have to do two authorizations or two logins or something like that.
Steve: Yeah. Love it. Okay. Yeah. There’s something. That’s why I’m kind of like, I think the one thing, you guys have a great article on this? One thing I want to move on to is, the top six is a blog post on Admiral Media. Your marketing team may be missing. And I think this is definitely one that we’re going to be talking about.
Florian Gleissner: It’s totally right that you have to focus on this at the first time. So this is the first step, also focus from CRM. So you have a good onboarding, to have a good conversion rate from the install to the sign up, to finish the onboarding process because here you lose a lot. And these are also low-hanging fruits.
Steve: Yeah. And the last thing that I keep thinking about telling people is look, it’s a freaking funnel, like think about it as a funnel. Don’t just think about, the reason why I bring this up is Jeremy’s saying keyword optimization and downloads. That’s not your problem. Like you want to get some organic down, you need some downloads just to get data, but then you can just pay for it. That’s easy. That’s controllable. And I can define how much I spend, how much of a budget I have, but you got to think of it as a marketing funnel. Okay, the customer journey, download, registration, approval, money deposit, send that first money like that is the entire funnel. And I think too many times we get lost in asking the wrong questions and not thinking it on a funnel type of basis. Like where’s my traffic coming from, how am I getting my downloads? And then what’s happening once I get those downloads, everything’s just a funnel.
Florian Gleissner: Yep. That’s totally right.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. On that end, is there anything else that from a funnel perspective, do you want to add on Florian Gleissner?
Florian Gleissner: I think you said it perfect. I can’t make it better.
Steve: Well I appreciate that. Look at that. What’s this? Thank you. So the CRM side, anything that I did not ask you that you want to, AB testing, personization?
Florian Gleissner: Yeah. From this side I have to see the app. This is more long term, but yeah.
Steve: Okay. Alright. Personalization with maybe the fasting app that you were bringing up that you’ve seen work well, too.
Florian Gleissner: Yeah. So personalization in general topics is when you call the users by name, that’s always a good thing for push notification to say, Hey Steve, Hey Florian Gleissner, come to the app, blah, blah, blah, next wording. This is also very, very easy personalization. So it seems personal to the users. And it’s really easy to implement. And after that I think it, if you really want to do some personalization, you have to know the users or get to know the users and this you can do AB testing also with server management. So you can implement some surveys into your app with quick questions, or do you like this meditation? Do you like this course. Do you like your feeling today? And then with that you can know users better and better and can also do some bigger surveys. From that you can build out some bio personas and then you can specific targets. This bio personas with personalized wordings. Let’s say for very dominate men use other words than for very shy woman, for example.
Steve: Yeah, I like it. And I always like, when I personalize and use a person’s name, I never try to go like dear Florian Gleissner or hello. I’m more like Florian Gleissner, like excitement, something that makes it a little bit different. So my emails typically, especially if I haven’t talked to somebody, instead of being like, Hi Steve, it’s been a long time. Hope you’re well, it’s like boring. And I don’t know if you really feel that way. I just go Florian Gleissner long time, man and I just get into it. Like I’d put three exclamation marks being like, so try to show some emotions in that. Hey, your dad joke is pretty good. So, Patrick, yes sir, you gave it to me, but Luke voted for you and then Adrian voted for you as well. So you won that round. You got another one or should we move on to the next app?
Florian Gleissner: I don’t have another one, but you can tell yours.
Steve: Ricardo is always in the comments. He’s got one. what do you call dinosaur forts?. Okay. I don’t want to go. And exstinktion, there you go. I think visually will make more sense, but there it is. All right, Ricardo, come up with one bro. And then you got one. Alright. Let’s get into Meek, his app. Same page relationship game. And this question is usability and friendliness of the app. So I was going to pay for it. I was pretty close, but I was like, if I keep paying for apps, then it’s just not going to make sense for me to do this. Where do you want to start? Do you have any ideas off of this? It’s a paid app by the way. So it’s a $1.99 paid app.
Florian Gleissner: Yeah. So this is the reason why I don’t. I had to look on usability, but yeah, for the Google play store image. I think it’s too boring because I don’t see some emotions here. So it’s everything the same. Usually always handy with some wording out of it. I don’t see some fun into this because when I thought about relationship games or games I want to have fun. I want to see fun. And I don’t see fun in there six pictures.
Steve: Agreed. It looks like my kid wrote on a flashcard and said, Hey dad, here, here’s some games you can play. I’m like, alright, thanks kid. I just put this up. But like is the first one for couples games come closer. Like this is more fun. You have people in there. You have people smiling. You have a better UI. So here, this is a way better UI than what you got. So I don’t even have to buy the app. And then the other thing I would say is Android. Your app is on Android. People do not like to play on Android. People will leave you one star reviews because you have in-app purchases. So you’re in the market of being like, Hey, here’s a paid app on a market that does not like to pay.
So that’s the first thing. And that’s why I didn’t pay for your app because I was like, you’re swimming in the wrong pool, in the wrong ocean. Go fish where the fish are and you’re not fishing. You’re like, there are no fish here. And so first things first make it free. Have some ads, go check out our ad mob tutorials that we have already and figure out a way to monetize through ads. But that’s the way to go. And one of our clients, just internally people we talk to, they’re like I saw 10X more downloads as a free app than I did as a paid app. And most people end up making more money in the long run, free within app purchases then as a strictly paid app.
That’s it. Go out out there. And I think relationship game, I don’t know if that one has more traffic than couples games, but I think couples games is probably the one that has more traffic than relationship games. You can use any ASO to kind of figure that out. I like to use AppRadar when I’m doing Google play keyword research because they tend to have more accurate data in terms of the search volume. Any ASO tool you use they’ll have different numbers for the search volume of keyword on Google play, on apple it’s pretty universal. Like everybody has the right score, but on Google play, I tend to trust the app radar score a little bit more, just from what we’ve seen with actual downloads and the keyword rankings being just as high for that. But yeah. That’s it. Anything else you want to add here?
Florian Gleissner: Not really. So they have to really think about the design and about pricing strategy. So yeah.
Steve: Yeah. Alright Florian Gleissner, anything I missed that you want to make sure we cover?
Florian Gleissner: I’m guessing we have everything now. Now the people know everything about CRM?
Steve: I loved it again. Let’s recap. I took notes. I’m good at this stuff. Customer journey, stage one, put your customer journey together. AB test the crap out of it and then personalize, and it’s in these stages. So really customer journey, talk to customers, don’t be afraid, get feedback like you do on this show. Get people to just hand over your phone and be like, Hey, check out my app. Think about this. User testing is another one too that you guys can check out, but get feedback. Think about that journey because that journey that you had in your head might be wrong. The customer might be coming in for a whole different journey. So it’s always good to get that feedback too. Alright, the website is admiral.media, go check them out. They’ve worked with a lot of great companies. They are doing a lot of TikTok marketing too.
And so really, really interesting stuff. I did a video on fasting. I was like, this fasting app is making like $200,000 and I really broke it down. But I like the app and I think they were one of the ones when I started thinking about longer paywalls. I believe they were one of the ones that I found early on that had a long paywall, them and reflectively. And I was like, look guys, I think this is the way to go. And now we have enough data that says yes, longer paywalls are outperforming short paywalls too. Okay. Admiral Media. Florian Gleissner, if the audience wants to connect with you in any other way, do you want to send them anywhere else?
Florian Gleissner: No. You can just write me on LinkedIn or send me an email or go to Admiral Media and meet our great leader Andre Kempe, and then you can go for it and go for your success.
Steve: Yeah. A lot of great articles on the blog too. Check out that six things. I’m going to link it up into the YouTube description. I’ve been wanting to talk about that marketing funnel forever because I work with a lot of clients they are like Steve, how much did I spend? And I’m like, look, you don’t have the numbers like put down the entire numbers and like really think through everything. And there it’s a simple math game formula, good thing, Florian Gleissner. I was only good at algebra. Like after algebra, I really sucked, geometry, trig, calculus. I was just horrible, but algebra was really good and I kept telling my kids, if there’s one math thing that you need to know, it’s algebra, I use it to today. Like that is it?
Florian Gleissner: Yeah. That’s true.
Steve: Awesome. Well, Florian Gleissner’s LinkedIn is linked up to the YouTube description as well. So if you got anything out of this, thank him, go connect with him on LinkedIn. And then we did publish a video past Wednesday about product market fit. Really interesting tutorial on that. Like how to find it. What’s the right question? So go check that out. And next week we’re going to talk about chat bot marketing and how you can put support, what Florian Gleissner was talking about with the in-app communications and how do you bring in that in-app communication so you keep users within your app? So that video is coming out next Tuesday. We’re going to do a Tuesday and Thursday type of schedule. Tuesday longer video. Thursday short. So check out that YouTube. And then lastly, next Friday, we’re coming back live and we’re going to talk all about games. How do you build the right sequencing? Kind of like what we talked about flooring before games to increase the conversions. So join us every Friday, stay through all the plugs. But thank you so much for coming on doing this.
Florian Gleissner: Thanks for having me.
Steve: Thank you for joining and I’ll see you guys next week. Have a good weekend guys. Bye.